G35 Sedan D.I.Y. Stainless Steel 16 Gauge Fan Shroud/Plate (E-FAN CONVERSION) - - Infiniti G35 & G37 Forum Discussion | baltiyskiy-vokzal.ru
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G35 Sedan D.I.Y. Stainless Steel 16 Gauge Fan Shroud/Plate (E-FAN CONVERSION)

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Old 10-06-2010, 04:14 AM
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G35 Sedan D.I.Y. Stainless Steel 16 Gauge Fan Shroud/Plate (E-FAN CONVERSION)

I tried posting in the DIY section yet it does NOT allow me to...






So after having the fan clutch go out on me a few times, and now really noticing the gas consumption due to 99degree weather in Miami, FL.

I have decided to go back to the E-Fan setup. This time I WILL NOT be installing the fans directly on the radiator core. PWR radiators are not cheap and they tend to break quick with Discount Auto Parts (hayden fans).


So instead I have decided to make a stainless steel 16 gauge plate/shroud.


You can go to any local metal seller or steel yard.

Cost for a 17x28 stainless steel 16 gauge 304 plate was 24.00

I decided to go with a Primary 16incher and secondary 12 inch fan.

Since I had the 16 inch fan resting in the utility room, i do not recall the price. But I'd say around 75.00 in your nearest autozone/discount auto.

the 12 inch fan was 64.00

heatshrink, stainless steel nuts bolts and washers came out to total of 103.26


These pics are overlays to make sure the space was right, and test the fans for power. The plate will be opened later today (it makes a lot of noise so imagine 4am in a quiet area lol)




Old 10-06-2010, 04:14 AM
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Basically cut the holes out either using a jigsaw or a handheld circular saw.

Mount the fans.

I used a 16 inch and a 12 inch.

The 16inch WILL NOT FIT in the passenger side. You have to mount it at the driver’s side.

The 12 inch fan will clear and fir the passenger side. With 1 inch of gap between the 16 incher it'll give you 1/2 and inch of left over space on the radiator (passenger side). You will need this space to clear the reservoir steel holder.

DEAD center I drilled a 1/4inch hole for the sensor. The temperature sensor goes pushed into the radiator (through the fins, be careful NOT to puncture the tubes.)


VERY IMPORTANT Information:

FAN CLUTCH...

I searched the forums (driver, 350z, frenzy, Infiniti help, GOOGLE, etc...) NO ONE has information pertaining to what temperature the fan clutch engages.

So here is what data I have been able to obtain:

Upon initial startup (cold) the clutch is engaged. This is due to the fluid resting at the bottom of the structure. After about 3-5 minutes the fluid is spun into the proper place and it will slow down as it disengages.

Please remember the temperatures collected have been acquired 2 ways,
I used a non-contact Infrared Thermometer with Laser (
)
I used this for the radiator temperatures.

For the internal temperatures I connected my Actron CP9185 OBD-2 scanner. (
)

Additionally, I have the PWR Radiator for the G35 Sedan. (Temperatures DO NOT change, as the thermostat will maintain a constant temperature. The PWR radiator provides a better advantage for tracking or “spotty heat ups”

What is spotty temperature?

Typical in racing/tracking, you will push your car to its limits by doing so, you will run a higher temperature, usually by running a smaller and/or OEM radiator the temperatures will rise to the point the cooling system (fan’s) cannot keep up and/or overcome the amount of heat you are producing. Thus causing the temperature to rise beyond normal. Bigger radiators tend to allow more fluid to be cooled therefore allowing a higher amount of abuse to carry on as the fans can continue to cool down the engine temperatures.
So remember bigger radiator does nothing to relative temperatures, it only holds more fluid to allow for more performance oriented driving.


Data collected was done so with the following hardware:

Fresh overhaul (VQ35DE) no overbore, just slight head mil.
New OEM Thermostat
New OEM Fan Clutch
PWR Radiator

On to the data with A/C on:

On highway speeds 95 degree atmospheric temperature the internal temperature will maintain at 177-181. At this point the fan clutch is disengaged. Once you come to a complete stop and the air stops moving at the rate that it has from the highway the temperatures will rise internally to about 183 to 185 (it fluctuates). The fan clutch has not fully engaged, once the temperature reaches 188-191 it FULLY engaged. The temperatures will maintain constantly fluctuating from 188-191.


CITY with stop and go traffic:


The temperatures will maintain at 185-188 while traveling at 35-40 MPH. Upon coming to a complete stop the temperature will rise to 191-195. Once you begin to move forward again the temperatures will slowly come down to 188 and eventually to 185 all depending on your speed and distance traveled before coming to a complete stop again.
Why does the temperature differ from highway speeds and city speeds?

(Simple Air Flow and HEAT SOAK)

Well this is where the infrared thermometer comes into play; Driving at Highway speeds for 5 miles I rapidly stop to the shoulder and pop the hood and aim the thermometer at the radiator. The temperature coming from the ENGINE to the radiator is at 185 degrees and the temperature coming from the radiator to the engine is at 159-165 degree’s depending on how fast you have been traveling and how much distance. I have brought down my temperature to 140 degrees (radiator to engine) by driving for 30 miles nonstop at 60mph during a 92 degree day.

By coming out of the highway and coming to a complete stop the temperature at the radiator is too low for the clutch to engage thus the engine not being too hot.
The city temps tend to have the radiator equally heated. The temperature from the engine to the radiator is at 189-193. The temperature from the radiator center is at 183-185, and the temperature exiting the radiator to the engine is around 177-183 really dependant on the amount of heat soaking.
I have pushed the engine temperature to the radiator up to 203 degrees and the fan clutch has brought down the temperature to the engine to 191-188.

Fan clutches are very efficient. For a mechanical device I must say this invention was GENIUS!
Old 10-06-2010, 04:15 AM
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EFAN's:

This is definetly a bit more tricky to "tune"

Since my car does NOT come with the harness for the upgraded E-fans from the dealership, I had various options. I could of done like Dave-O and gotten a variable controller (expensive) you can use a push type thermostat or tap into the temp sensor from the ECU, or opt for a standard push in type thermostat.


I opted for the push in type. for one simple reason. (I can control where the fans kick in the radiator instead of at the engine).

After my research with the fan clutch temperatures I decided that I wanted the fans to kick on around 188-191 degrees Internal engine temperate. It'll allow the engine to run optimally close to the performance of the Fan Clutch (OEM).

So I ran the car with the fans off until the engine temperate reached 205. I allowed the radiator to heat soak. This allows you to get a more consistent temperature reading because now the entire cooling system is at an even level.

I then turned off the engine and allowed the car to cool down to around 190. at this point I programmed the fan control switch to kick on at 190 (at the center of radiator)

I have made a photoshop diagram of how the temperature works across the radiator:

Orange = Engine to Radiator Inlet (Passenger side)
Green = Radiator to Engine Outlet (Driver side)
Red = Hot
Blue = Cool



The top of the radiator tends to stay hot because first and foremost heat likes to travel UP!

The optimal location is at the center, because it will allow the radiator to actually work more than the fans. Remember the cooler the fluid the more abuse you can give the car before the engines temperature will come to the point where you need to be less aggressive.

But the cooler the liquid the more your fan has to work. Everything in this world has a . So the best thing to do is allow the radiator to stay 50/50. It'll allow for lots of aggressive driving also it'll allow you to give your fans plenty of life. I engage the fans when the temperature hits 188 internal ENGINE temp. which is 180 radiator center temp. The exit for the radiator is at 167-170. The entrance for the radiator is around 195-197. Doing so I can cool the water in the center from 188 to 168, this relay/sensor that Hayden sells will only cut off at 20 degrees from whereever it clicks on. So if you click it on at 200 it will turn off at 180.

While driving on the highway the fans are constantly off as the radiator drops nicely. and during heavy traffic the fans click on and off every few minutes.

So how I have it internal engine temperatures:

188-190 fans are ON.
181-182 fans are off.

This keeps the temperatures right between where the fan clutch kept the temperatures.


After some aggressive driving I have brought the engine temperatures up to 195. Pulled over checked the radiator exit temperature and the radiator exit is at 180ish. So the fans do a great job.

This fan panel does the following benefits:

First and foremost, I have taken the fans OFF the fins/tubes. and onto a panel. I created tabs at the bottom of the panel so that it does not dangle or keep all of the weight at the screws, it rests on the clips that PWR made, and bolts onto the ports PWR welded internally. For vibration I installed a high heat foam around the panel. additionally I gave the panel a 1/2 inch spacing between the radiator fins and fans (this helps act as a fan shroud) You have to remember OEM fans are mounted a bit far from the radiator core to act as a Fan Clutch fan shroud. Aftermarket fans tend to mount directly on core thus limiting the area of cooling.

Clearence is very tight on the drivers side. I have about 1/2 inch of space from the a/c compressor and the motor for the 16 inch fan. Yet it is safe, and I can still change belts with ease.

All the wires were soldered together and heatshrinked then wire loomed and zip-tied neatly around the E-fan housings all the way to the electrical destinations.

I'll post pics of the end results tomorrow (need day light).



Why stainless steel and not aluminum?

Few reasons:

I don't have the equipment to weld aluminum.
You will need 14 gauge or stiffer aluminum so it is not flimsy and supports the weight of the 2 fans.
Panel does NOTHING for cooling. So stainless steel works just fine.


BENEFITS:

Yes, FUEL IMPROVEMENT!

I drive more than 150 miles per day between city and highway. I see a weekly bill of around 150-200.00 dollars of gas.

I see a significant difference at the pump. Over 80 dollars savings per week.


Horsepower gain myth:

So far it's just a myth I have not dyno tested the product.

But to the defense of the myth and food for thought,

With the Fan clutch I could NOT and I did try a before and after within 10 minutes of each other and temperatures being relative (within 1-3 degrees engine temperature)

I could not spin my tires in from a complete stop.

With the fan clutch the car tends to lag until the fan clutch disengages at 2600RPM.

Current wheel setup is 275-35-20(rear)

with the e-fans the tires would not grab.


highway the accelleration is obvious.



People who are sceptical, I would like for you to try this out with your hands.

Grab the fan clutch housing and blade (out of the car of course) and try to spin it and have the fan blade spin LESS than your hand. Hard huh?

this is because it takes a lot of enery to spin the fan clutch assembly and further more it takes a lot of energy away from your hand.

now try to spin the pulley where the fan clutch assembly by itself, a lot easier huh?


Though to an engine it may be "not much"... In power, every little bit helps.

Another notation:

Crusing on the streets, say I let go of the throttle at 45mph the RPM would hold for about 5-8 seconds before it comes to idle yet the car continues to cruise under its inertia. With the E-fans the moment I back off the throttle the RPMS come down to 1,200-1000 RPM near instantly. All the while not aiding with engine braking. I thought this was a placebo effect. I removed the plate which contains the fans and tested the fan clutch and what do you know.... It's a fact, the fan clutch acts as a engine brake.

Remember at the end of the day (to every action there is an equal and opposite reaction)

that being said as the Clutch engages it tends to "slow down" the amount of speed it's missing thus increasing the speed of the fan blade itself.


this concludes my assesment of the setup and tests.

I am very pleased with the end results. Both financially at the pump and with the way it helps the engine perform.
Old 12-29-2010, 12:44 AM
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Thanks for the info.
Subscribing and bookmarking for my upcoming e-fan mod
Old 12-29-2010, 01:17 AM
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Something you have yet to consider...The T-stat opens at 180* for the mechanical fan clutch driven engine. The electric fan engine T-stat opens at 170*.

I'm not sure if that is "full open" or if that is the "starting to open" temperature---i believe it to be fully open though.

You might consider swapping to a 170* thermostat instead of the stock 180* that you are working with as well since you are now using electric fans.
Old 12-29-2010, 07:03 PM
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^Good idea. I'll be swapping to the 170.
Any idea what the on/off temps are for the elec fans on stock-equiped G's?
Old 12-29-2010, 07:41 PM
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The thermostat opening at a higher temp really doesn't make a difference. As long as the radiator is cooler than the temp coming from the engine.

For example:

I had the electric relay to click on at 188 which means the temps would reach 188 at the radiator then drop to 160.

Now I've moved it up to 200. (That way the fans are not constantly on).

The engine temp with hard driving never passes 205... and i mean hard track driving.

With a thermostat opening at a higher temp allows the radiator more time to cool down the temps. With a thermostat opening sooner makes the engine run cooler by just staying open for longer periods of time. Regardless you can switch the electric relay to turn on at a lower temp just your fans will be constantly on.
Old 12-29-2010, 07:50 PM
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Can you review how you actually hooked up the electricals?
Old 12-29-2010, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff92se View Post
Can you review how you actually hooked up the electricals?


Part number 226204 hayden imperial adjustable fan control from advanced auto parts

I basically ran the power directly from the battery and did not route it as on via ignition. Its on all the time so even if I turn off the car and the temp was at 200 it'll stay on till 180. ( less than 30 seconds)
Old 12-29-2010, 08:11 PM
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Jeff, I'm doing a fairly nice wiring setup.
Remind me once you see me post about being done (or some time next month) and I'll show you.

I'll probably draw out a schematic some time this week.
Old 12-29-2010, 08:21 PM
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I thought it would be tied into the factory wiring more. At least for the signal. ie.. tie into the other oem fan? I have the wiring for past installs somewhere if you're interested.
Old 12-29-2010, 08:22 PM
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Old 12-29-2010, 08:26 PM
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Old 12-29-2010, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff92se View Post
I thought it would be tied into the factory wiring more. At least for the signal. ie.. tie into the other oem fan? I have the wiring for past installs somewhere if you're interested.


There is no wiring on fan clutch cars. Only the a/c auxillary fan. And that fan does not kick on (with ac off) until 203 degrees. I could of used ignition for signal but I prefer to have it direct and always on. Never had any issues like this.
Old 12-29-2010, 11:50 PM
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Low engagement point its 203* and kicks off at 194 if i remember right
High engagement is 211* and kicks off at 202*

that is for the AC elctric fan for the mechanical fan equipped sedans.

i believe the dual electric are very similar to that.

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